Thomas D. Gorman: You wrote an article in Inc. Magazine back in 1995 and in that you wrote, "In a world of constant change, the fundamentals are more important than ever." Does that still hold true? It's sort of obvious, but in today's environment, we have to ask.
Jim Collins: Yeah.
So, let's just first of all, let's just look at a number of, ones that we know, in the United States. Look up the Hewlett Packard turnaround under Mark Hurd. Did he go back to some very disciplined fundamentals?
Yes.
Let's look at the IBM turnaround under Lou Gerstner -- a, tremendous time of turmoil. I mean, the rise of distributed computing, the threat to the mainframe business. The challenges they had, they hadn't even come up with the idea of broad services yet. IBM on the cover of magazines as a dinosaur, did he go back to fundamentals of really great people, really good evidence-based analysis, deciding with great rigor how to allocate resources, building a team of 300?
Look at the challenges that Blake Nordstrom faced when he took over Nordstrom, a family business. And ask what it took to get them back on track. He had a company with a great history which had lost sight of some basic fundamentals, starting with things like great customer service and good systems. They were facing tremendous change in the retail industry, a world in complete flux, plus new competition like the Gap and whoever else. In the face of all that, he took them back to fundamentals.
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高德思：你1995年曾在《Inc》雜志上寫過一篇文章，你說，“在一個不斷變化的世界中，基本原則比以往任何時候都更重要?！爆F在依然如此嗎？這似乎是顯而易見的，但是在今天的環境下，我們必須要在此提出這個問題。
吉姆·柯林斯：是的。
那么，首先我們來看看美國一些家喻戶曉的公司?？纯椿萜赵隈R克?赫德（Mark Hurd）的帶領下如何逆轉。他是否回歸了一些嚴格的基本原則呢？
是的。
再看看郭士納（Lou Gerstner）領導下IBM如何翻盤，當時情況非?；靵y。我是指，分布式計算興起，對主機業務構成了挑戰。而IBM的挑戰是：他們當時甚至還沒有想到要廣泛轉向服務業。當時雜志封面都把IBM描述為恐龍，而郭士納不也正是回歸了那些最基本的原則嗎？這些基本原則包括（引入）優秀的員工，進行以實證為基礎的優秀分析，及其嚴格地決定如何分配資源，建立一個300人的團隊等等。
看看布雷克?諾德斯特龍（Blake Nordstrom）掌管諾德斯特龍這家族公司的時候都面對了哪些挑戰。然后想想他們采用了什么方法回到正確的發展軌道？諾德斯特龍公司有偉大的歷史，但是此前忽略了一些最基本的原則，比如一切都要從卓越的客戶服務開始，同時必須擁有優秀的系統。當時的零售業市場正發生著整體的變化，還誕生了新的競爭對手，比如Gap公司等等。面對這些，諾德斯特龍帶領公司回歸了基本原則。
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