
里奇·戈特利布在費城商業地產公司Keystone工作了超過18年,曾擔任該公司的高級副總裁,現任總裁兼首席運營官。與其他許多人一樣,他也將辦公樓行業的低迷歸咎于向遠程辦公轉變的普遍趨勢,他認為這嚴重影響了需求。此外,低成本融資的時代已經結束,特點就是經濟環境向更高利率和更嚴格的信貸條件轉變。
戈特利布對《財富》雜志表示:“目前,辦公樓得不到貸款……市場上缺乏流動性?!备晏乩急硎荆噬蠞q侵蝕了大量現金流,他認為這是一個“艱難時期”。
他認為,當前辦公地產低迷與之前的情況區別在于,辦公樓的業主現在想要知道需求是否會有所反彈。
戈特利布表示:“現在,人們都在懷疑是否還需要辦公室。我認為辦公樓的需求會恢復。世事多變,一切都在不斷變化,但根據我的經驗,范式轉變速度飛快,之后它們會恢復到更接近于最開始的狀態?!?/p>
戈特利布最早承認,當前的狀況對他或他所在的行業不利,因此可以說隨著人們重回辦公室,他和他所在的行業將從中受益。無論如何,考慮到當前的情況,如果公司有機會通過減少辦公空間節約支出,它們一定會抓住機會。正如戈特利布所說,這種狀況引發了所謂的“價值重置”。但戈特利布表示,房地產的價值、空置率和交易量“存在巨大差異”,占據優勢的主要是所謂便利設施配套更齊全的建筑。他表示,大部分公司確實想要辦公空間,只是這取決于他們想要多大空間。
在被問到戈特利布的公司是否不得不出售任何建筑甚至將地產的所有權交給貸款機構時,他不置可否,而是回答稱:“我們與其他人一樣都面臨挑戰?!钡硎荆罱K,公司依舊是貸款機構想要合作的對象之一。
他說道:“大環境的變化對所有人產生了影響。如果[貸款機構]希望取得房產的所有權,他們會選擇與我合作——他們將房產交給其他人能得到什么回報?”他問道:“一旦他們取消抵押品贖回權,房地產就會貶值。他們并不具備運營這些商業地產的能力。而且市場上出售房地產缺乏流動性,除非市場跌至低谷。因此,我們發現,我們和貸款機構正在相互合作。”
即便如此,戈特利布表示,Keystone在再融資方面領先于同行。該公司依舊在重新評估其資產組合,并開始將其辦公樓改造成多戶住宅。戈特利布表示,這符合公司多年來培養的“核心競爭力”,因為公司以前就會購買郊區的舊辦公樓,并投入大量資金對它們進行重新定位,而不是只進行表面維修或裝飾。他表示,這些舊辦公樓通常位于黃金地段,但它們需要資本注入。有時候這意味著要為辦公樓安裝新空調系統,或者徹底拆除幕墻和將外墻換成玻璃,以獲得自然光照明。
戈特利布表示:“這是我們最初的經營策略,并演變成了當前的混合用途策略。我們從來不擔心對現有建筑進行改造。而且,我們犯過許多錯誤,但我將其歸因于經驗。因此,對我們而言,將辦公樓改造成住宅聽起來更像是挑戰,卻并不會令我們感到恐懼。”
戈特利布表示,Keystone并非將辦公樓完全改造成住宅,而是轉變成混合用途空間。他提到了費城市區的辦公樓Curtis。這棟辦公樓面積接近100萬平方英尺,曾經是一家出版社,已經成為當地的地標之一。戈特利布表示,辦公樓內的部分空間尺寸不規則,但卻適合改造成公寓。因此,他表示,該公司創建了一個單獨的區域并建成了公寓,現在這里是費城房價最高的公寓之一。該措施增加了房屋供應,在全美房屋建設量不足的情況下,這些房屋滿足了需求,但它并不是經濟適用房源。
戈特利布表示:“目前建設經濟適用住房困難重重。”之后他表示“現在所有條件都不利于這樣做”。
他表示,建設成本上漲,借款成本上漲,而貸款機構愿意提供的貸款金額卻在減少。他認為,歸根結底,投資者希望獲得回報。這意味著,建設經濟適用房并不是投資者們最看重的投資項目。
戈特利布表示,在Keystone將辦公樓改造成多戶住宅的過程中,首先是查看地理位置,然后研究建筑一個樓層的可租賃面積。他解釋稱:“因此,如果我能設計一棟建筑,只損失10%或20%的空間,這遠好過損失40%的辦公樓可出租空間。”
但Keystone的秘密武器似乎是混合用途分區。戈特利布表示,盡管過去幾年興起了接受混合用途環境的趨勢,但費城城區的區劃代碼適用于公寓,郊區卻按用途劃分。區域劃分有時候可能是交易成敗的決定性條件,因為區域劃分可能會延誤建設過程。戈特利布表示,在開始開發之前,有時候僅僅區域劃分獲得批準就可能需要一兩年時間。
他說道:“改造辦公樓并不像人們想象的那么簡單。大多數建筑的改造項目并不成功。”
而且,考慮到市場上幾乎沒有任何流動性,你可能認為,這類改造項目甚至難以獲得貸款。戈特利布表示:“當前世事艱難。我認為如果我們現在才有所行動,那么答案就是我們的項目無法獲得貸款?!保ㄘ敻恢形木W)
翻譯:劉進龍
審校:汪皓
里奇·戈特利布在費城商業地產公司Keystone工作了超過18年,曾擔任該公司的高級副總裁,現任總裁兼首席運營官。與其他許多人一樣,他也將辦公樓行業的低迷歸咎于向遠程辦公轉變的普遍趨勢,他認為這嚴重影響了需求。此外,低成本融資的時代已經結束,特點就是經濟環境向更高利率和更嚴格的信貸條件轉變。
戈特利布對《財富》雜志表示:“目前,辦公樓得不到貸款……市場上缺乏流動性?!备晏乩急硎?,利率上漲侵蝕了大量現金流,他認為這是一個“艱難時期”。
他認為,當前辦公地產低迷與之前的情況區別在于,辦公樓的業主現在想要知道需求是否會有所反彈。
戈特利布表示:“現在,人們都在懷疑是否還需要辦公室。我認為辦公樓的需求會恢復。世事多變,一切都在不斷變化,但根據我的經驗,范式轉變速度飛快,之后它們會恢復到更接近于最開始的狀態。”
戈特利布最早承認,當前的狀況對他或他所在的行業不利,因此可以說隨著人們重回辦公室,他和他所在的行業將從中受益。無論如何,考慮到當前的情況,如果公司有機會通過減少辦公空間節約支出,它們一定會抓住機會。正如戈特利布所說,這種狀況引發了所謂的“價值重置”。但戈特利布表示,房地產的價值、空置率和交易量“存在巨大差異”,占據優勢的主要是所謂便利設施配套更齊全的建筑。他表示,大部分公司確實想要辦公空間,只是這取決于他們想要多大空間。
在被問到戈特利布的公司是否不得不出售任何建筑甚至將地產的所有權交給貸款機構時,他不置可否,而是回答稱:“我們與其他人一樣都面臨挑戰。”但他表示,最終,公司依舊是貸款機構想要合作的對象之一。
他說道:“大環境的變化對所有人產生了影響。如果[貸款機構]希望取得房產的所有權,他們會選擇與我合作——他們將房產交給其他人能得到什么回報?”他問道:“一旦他們取消抵押品贖回權,房地產就會貶值。他們并不具備運營這些商業地產的能力。而且市場上出售房地產缺乏流動性,除非市場跌至低谷。因此,我們發現,我們和貸款機構正在相互合作?!?/p>
即便如此,戈特利布表示,Keystone在再融資方面領先于同行。該公司依舊在重新評估其資產組合,并開始將其辦公樓改造成多戶住宅。戈特利布表示,這符合公司多年來培養的“核心競爭力”,因為公司以前就會購買郊區的舊辦公樓,并投入大量資金對它們進行重新定位,而不是只進行表面維修或裝飾。他表示,這些舊辦公樓通常位于黃金地段,但它們需要資本注入。有時候這意味著要為辦公樓安裝新空調系統,或者徹底拆除幕墻和將外墻換成玻璃,以獲得自然光照明。
戈特利布表示:“這是我們最初的經營策略,并演變成了當前的混合用途策略。我們從來不擔心對現有建筑進行改造。而且,我們犯過許多錯誤,但我將其歸因于經驗。因此,對我們而言,將辦公樓改造成住宅聽起來更像是挑戰,卻并不會令我們感到恐懼?!?/p>
戈特利布表示,Keystone并非將辦公樓完全改造成住宅,而是轉變成混合用途空間。他提到了費城市區的辦公樓Curtis。這棟辦公樓面積接近100萬平方英尺,曾經是一家出版社,已經成為當地的地標之一。戈特利布表示,辦公樓內的部分空間尺寸不規則,但卻適合改造成公寓。因此,他表示,該公司創建了一個單獨的區域并建成了公寓,現在這里是費城房價最高的公寓之一。該措施增加了房屋供應,在全美房屋建設量不足的情況下,這些房屋滿足了需求,但它并不是經濟適用房源。
戈特利布表示:“目前建設經濟適用住房困難重重。”之后他表示“現在所有條件都不利于這樣做”。
他表示,建設成本上漲,借款成本上漲,而貸款機構愿意提供的貸款金額卻在減少。他認為,歸根結底,投資者希望獲得回報。這意味著,建設經濟適用房并不是投資者們最看重的投資項目。
戈特利布表示,在Keystone將辦公樓改造成多戶住宅的過程中,首先是查看地理位置,然后研究建筑一個樓層的可租賃面積。他解釋稱:“因此,如果我能設計一棟建筑,只損失10%或20%的空間,這遠好過損失40%的辦公樓可出租空間?!?/p>
但Keystone的秘密武器似乎是混合用途分區。戈特利布表示,盡管過去幾年興起了接受混合用途環境的趨勢,但費城城區的區劃代碼適用于公寓,郊區卻按用途劃分。區域劃分有時候可能是交易成敗的決定性條件,因為區域劃分可能會延誤建設過程。戈特利布表示,在開始開發之前,有時候僅僅區域劃分獲得批準就可能需要一兩年時間。
他說道:“改造辦公樓并不像人們想象的那么簡單。大多數建筑的改造項目并不成功?!?
而且,考慮到市場上幾乎沒有任何流動性,你可能認為,這類改造項目甚至難以獲得貸款。戈特利布表示:“當前世事艱難。我認為如果我們現在才有所行動,那么答案就是我們的項目無法獲得貸款?!保ㄘ敻恢形木W)
翻譯:劉進龍
審校:汪皓
Rich Gottlieb has been with Keystone, a Philadelphia-based commercial real estate firm, for more than 18 years, and now he’s the company’s president and chief operating officer after a stint as senior vice president. Like countless others, he attributes the distress within the office sector to the widespread shift toward remote work, which has significantly impacted demand. Additionally, the era of inexpensive financing has come to an end, marked by the transition to an economic environment characterized by higher interest rates and stricter credit conditions.
“For an office building, you can’t get a loan today…there’s no liquidity in the marketplace,” Gottlieb told Fortune. And with interest rates being higher, it’s eating away at a lot of the cash flow, Gottlieb said, calling it a “very trying time.”
In his view, the difference with this office real estate downturn as compared to previous downturns is that office owners are wondering if demand will ever return.
“This time, people are questioning whether they’re going to need that space at all,” Gottlieb said. “I believe they will be back. Things always evolve, things always change, but my experience has been that paradigm shifts move really quickly and then they come back closer to where it started.”
Gottlieb was the first to admit that what’s going on isn’t good for him or his industry, so it’s safe to say that he and his industry would benefit from people returning to the office. Either way, given where we’re at, if companies have the opportunity to save money by cutting back on office space, they’ll take it. It’s all triggering a “reset in value,” as Gottlieb put it. But Gottlieb said that property values, vacancy rates, and transactions are “all over the board,” with the so-called better buildings with better amenities mostly coming out on top. And for the most part, he said, companies do want office space, it just depends on how much space they want.
“We have challenges, like everybody else,” Gottlieb responded, after being asked if the firm has had to sell any of its buildings, or even turn in the keys , without giving a yes or no answer. But he did say that at the end of the day, the firm is one that lenders want to work with.
“The world changed on all of us,” he said. “If [the lenders] want to take the keys back, they take it from me—what are they getting by giving it to the next guy?” he asked, adding, “Once they foreclose, it’s worth even less. They don’t really have the capabilities typically to operate. And there’s no liquidity in the market to sell, unless it’s rock, rock, rock bottom. So we’re finding that lenders are working with us and we’re working with them.”
Even so, Gottlieb said, Keystone was ahead of the game in refinancing. Still, in reevaluating its portfolio, the firm has entered into the world of office-to-multifamily conversions. Gottlieb said it plays to their “core competency” over the years, considering that the company used to buy older, suburban offices and put a lot of money into them, not just a Band-Aid or some makeup, as he put it, to reposition them. Those older office buildings were typically in the best locations, but they needed capital, he said. Sometimes that meant putting new air conditioning systems in, or completely removing the facade and replacing that exterior with glass for natural light.
“That’s where we started, and we morphed into this mixed use,” Gottlieb said. “We were never afraid to work within an existing building. And, you know, we’ve made plenty of mistakes along the way, but I chalked it up to experience. So converting a building from office to residential sounds more like a challenge than something to be scared of to us.”
Instead of a complete conversion, Gottlieb said, Keystone has made office buildings into mixed-used spaces. He gave the example of the Curtis building in downtown Philadelphia, which was just under a million square feet and has become a sort of landmark in the city as a former publishing house. Gottlieb said part of the office had unusual sizing, but it was the perfect depth for apartments. So the company created a separate area and built apartments—which are now some of the highest-priced in Philadelphia, he said. That creates more supply, which is needed because the nation’s housing market is underbuilt, but it’s not affordable housing.
“It’s hard to do affordable housing anywhere, anytime right now,” Gottlieb said, adding later that “every lever is kind of working against you.”
The price of construction is up, the cost of borrowing is up, and the amount of money lenders are willing to lend is down, he said. And at the end of the day, in his view, investors want a return. That’s all to say that affordable housing doesn’t seem to be the number one thing on investors’ minds.
In Keystone’s own office-to-multifamily conversion process, Gottlieb said they start by looking at location, then they look at floor plates, which just refers to the leasable space on an entire floor of a building. “So if I have a building that I can design, and I’m only losing 10% or 20% of the space, that’s way better than a building that I’m losing 40% of the office rentable area,” he explained.
But what seems to be Keystone’s secret weapon, if you will, is mixed-use zoning. Downtown Philadelphia’s zoning code works for apartments, Gottlieb said, but the suburbs are sort of separated by uses—although there has been a push over the last several years to accept a mixed-use environment. Zoning can sometimes be a deal breaker, taking into account how much it can slow down the building process. Gottlieb said it can take one to two years sometimes just to get zoning approval before you even start development.
“It’s not the slam dunk that everybody thinks it is,” he said. “It’s not that easy. Most buildings don’t work.”
Still, seeing that there’s hardly any liquidity in the market, you’d think that even securing a loan for these conversions would be difficult. “Everything’s a struggle today,” Gottlieb said. “And I think if we were just starting out, the answer would be we couldn’t get a loan for it.”