2004年,張錫稿(David Chang)在紐約市開了一家革命性的福桃拉面館(Momofuku Noodle Bar)。后來,他不僅打造了一個餐飲帝國,還參加了奈飛(Netflix)的節目《美食不美》(Ugly Delicious),推出了一檔播客節目,并且剛剛出版了一本回憶錄《吃桃》(Eat a Peach)。如今他已經成為整個餐飲業的代言人。張錫稿在與加比?烏拉合著的新書中以誠實、率直的態度,回顧了自己的成功歷程,剖析了自己的雙極性障礙和抑郁癥。他之所以能夠在美食文化領域成為舉足輕重的人物,正是得益于這種率真的性格。
如今,他所傳達的消息不容樂觀:餐廳是社會和經濟正常運行的“潤滑油”不可或缺的一部分,但在新冠疫情期間,餐廳正面臨著生存危機。福桃也被迫關閉了兩家餐廳。目前,這位大廚主要致力于為整個行業向民選的官員們發出呼吁,推動政府提供援助,并努力團結所有業內同行。他正在努力解答的一個重要問題是:“我們如何解決整個餐飲行業所面臨的問題,讓它不再如此脆弱?”他問道:“我們如何保證不會重蹈覆轍?”
以下是《財富》雜志與張錫稿的對話內容節選。內容經過編輯。
《財富》:首先我們來聊一聊餐飲行業的現狀。您在4月曾經表示,那幾周是您人生中最艱難的一段時間。現在情況有所好轉還是變得更加糟糕?
張錫稿:我不確定情況是否有所好轉。我們只是適應了當前的市場環境。我們對前方的障礙多了一些了解。唯一能夠改變現狀的只有疫苗或者有效的治療方法,以及政府的適當援助。似乎其他所有英語國家都在向小企業和餐飲行業提供援助。但美國政府似乎無法組織有效的援助。
您的策略是什么?
首先是嘗試采取務實的做法:在這種不幸的情況下,怎么做對我們最有效,可以幫助我們為經濟重啟做好準備。我們整個團隊在這方面花了大量時間。你必須全面改革以前做過的一切。我們在大部分情況下只是在等待,等著答案出現,做我們能夠做的事情。
餐飲行業就像是一輛汽車,總是需要新的引擎、減震器、剎車片和消音器。我們永遠也修不好它,因為它總是在行駛過程中。現在,它停了下來,所以我們可以拿出時間來把它修好。
您剛剛談到新冠疫情暴露了餐飲行業的一些缺點。缺點有哪些?能否解決這些問題?
我認為小企業不應該承擔醫療保健的成本,這一點變得日益明顯。醫療應該是面向所有人提供的資源。而且事實證明,我們需要全民基本收入。
在疫情爆發之前,全民基本收入很難實現。即使你是一位久經考驗的經營者,你也很難獲得貸款,因為在金融行業,任何人都知道餐廳的財務基礎并不穩定。疫情暴露了餐廳的成本結構,而我們需要評估食物的價格。我認為實際成本將全面上漲30%或40%。我不知道人們會如何支付增加的成本。
當然如果你有擴大經營規模的資本和現金流,并且有途徑進入公開市場,你就沒有提高價格的動機。由于這種變化,你會看到整個行業會迎來巨變。
這會給整個國家帶來問題,因為餐廳就像是銀行。只是我們不會把錢抓在手里,靠它來收取利息。我們引入資金后,會很快把它們花掉,比如支付給花店、烘焙師、食材供應商、農場主、員工等。在美國的文化中,我們就像是“潤滑油”。我們通過回饋社會,讓整個社會始終保持正常運行。
到2035年,福桃會變成一家怎樣的公司?
我們從未想到會發生新冠疫情,但我們總是在為可能發生的糟糕的事情做準備。我們會研究大趨勢,所以早在送餐服務流行之前我們就已經開始提供這項服務。我們知道我們必須開展多種經營,為困難時期做好準備,于是我們竭盡全力。我們最初是一家設備公司。我們進軍傳媒業。我們有一間實驗室,主要制作各種發酵制品,如辣椒醬、鹽、醬油到各種味噌等。我們之前曾經與卡夫亨氏(Kraft Heinz)合作開發產品,并推廣我們的Ssam Sauce調味醬。
兩年前,我們提出了一個遠大的目標,計劃在五年內改變公司的收入結構,保證50%的收入來自消費品而不是餐廳。現在,在疫情的影響下,我們把實現這個目標的時間縮短到了6個月。我們為此調動了所有資源,同時繼續努力為餐廳的未來發展創造機會。
您的公司包含了餐廳和包裝消費品這兩部分業務,作為一位大廚,您對此有何感受?
我想許多廚師會說:“這不是我該做的。”我沒有那樣的福氣。我必須做出最合適的選擇。
我們進行了大規模重組。我們會努力避免再關閉任何餐廳。但我們的目標可能是后退幾步,夯實基礎,著眼于未來打造一家更出色的公司,召回所有老員工,去做更多事情。現實情況是,我們必須竭盡全力生存下去。如果我們不做出改變,未來將沒有任何希望可言。
您的書有一部分是在描寫失敗的經歷。我很好奇餐飲行業到底有哪些因素吸引了像您這樣一位好勝的人。在當前這個關乎生死存亡的時刻,您是否需要這種心態?
現在,烹飪在人們眼中是一項很酷的職業。但不久之前,如果你跟別人說你想成為一名廚師,人們會說:“你到底在干什么?”我去烹飪學校的時候,人們對我說:“恭喜你,從現在開始,人們會問你在監獄里待過嗎?你是退役軍人嗎?或者你剛離開康復中心嗎?”現在,有常春藤名校畢業的年輕人也加入了烹飪行業。這是最讓人覺得不可思議的事情。
我今年已經43歲半。至少按照保守派的觀念,一個人之所以做廚師是因為他做不了其他事情。至少就我了解,許多人從事烹飪的理由,并不適合當前的現狀。我認為,正是因為始終無法融入主流才讓我斗志昂揚。
餐廳為我提供了我所需要的這種奇怪的結構。我從小到大總是被別人吼,從我的父親、我的家人到高中時代。顯然,在廚房里也是如此。我根本無法融入到任何其他場合。廚房給我的感覺是,哇,這種環境讓我感到非常熟悉。至少對我而言,我之所以熱愛烹飪,是因為它讓我無法自拔。我沉迷于廚房帶給我的快感,許多人都有這樣的感受。
您在書中描寫了自己成為領導者的過程。在一次董事會議上,您曾經被人形容是他們見過的最差勁的商人,而且您的高管教練曾經表示,許多人根本無法忍受您,但他們這么長時間以來竟然一直支持您,這讓人覺得難以置信。
商人或者投資人對廚師說的最糟糕的話是,你是一位藝術家。這句話有一部分是正確的。我們確實是藝術家。但這句話中存有一種奇怪的偏見,人們認為廚師不會做其他任何事情。我認為這是一個自我塑造的過程。
我在做商業決策的時候,以及作為一名公司領導人,都犯過許多錯誤。這對我來說并不容易。我一直在反思自身存在的許多問題。我無法合理地解釋為什么我總是發火,或者為什么總是脾氣很差。
這也是我放棄很多福桃的控制權的一個原因。我不再參與決策。我的大部分工作是弄清楚哪些情況會讓我爆發。如果你自己有成癮的問題,就不應該把別人放到可能讓他們受到誘惑的情景當中。我一直在努力,但并不容易。
您在書中坦誠地談論了自己的抑郁癥和憤怒,以及它們與您的成功的聯系。如果您的職業發展得益于這些問題,您又如何看待自己的創造力?您如何開啟未來職業發展的新篇章?
無論我以前的成功得益于哪些因素,現在我可以回過頭來問自己,它真的有用嗎?我愿意接受新事物嗎?它們最終是否給我帶來了更多快樂?是否給我和我身邊的人帶來了正能量?
或許登頂并不是目標。或許我也可以走到中途,然后再返回山腳。就我而言,所謂成功的標準一直在變化,我也在考慮這對于我的未來意味著什么。這是我的真心話。我真的不知道。(財富中文網)
翻譯:劉進龍
審校:汪皓
2004年,張錫稿(David Chang)在紐約市開了一家革命性的福桃拉面館(Momofuku Noodle Bar)。后來,他不僅打造了一個餐飲帝國,還參加了奈飛(Netflix)的節目《美食不美》(Ugly Delicious),推出了一檔播客節目,并且剛剛出版了一本回憶錄《吃桃》(Eat a Peach)。如今他已經成為整個餐飲業的代言人。張錫稿在與加比?烏拉合著的新書中以誠實、率直的態度,回顧了自己的成功歷程,剖析了自己的雙極性障礙和抑郁癥。他之所以能夠在美食文化領域成為舉足輕重的人物,正是得益于這種率真的性格。
如今,他所傳達的消息不容樂觀:餐廳是社會和經濟正常運行的“潤滑油”不可或缺的一部分,但在新冠疫情期間,餐廳正面臨著生存危機。福桃也被迫關閉了兩家餐廳。目前,這位大廚主要致力于為整個行業向民選的官員們發出呼吁,推動政府提供援助,并努力團結所有業內同行。他正在努力解答的一個重要問題是:“我們如何解決整個餐飲行業所面臨的問題,讓它不再如此脆弱?”他問道:“我們如何保證不會重蹈覆轍?”
以下是《財富》雜志與張錫稿的對話內容節選。內容經過編輯。
《財富》:首先我們來聊一聊餐飲行業的現狀。您在4月曾經表示,那幾周是您人生中最艱難的一段時間。現在情況有所好轉還是變得更加糟糕?
張錫稿:我不確定情況是否有所好轉。我們只是適應了當前的市場環境。我們對前方的障礙多了一些了解。唯一能夠改變現狀的只有疫苗或者有效的治療方法,以及政府的適當援助。似乎其他所有英語國家都在向小企業和餐飲行業提供援助。但美國政府似乎無法組織有效的援助。
您的策略是什么?
首先是嘗試采取務實的做法:在這種不幸的情況下,怎么做對我們最有效,可以幫助我們為經濟重啟做好準備。我們整個團隊在這方面花了大量時間。你必須全面改革以前做過的一切。我們在大部分情況下只是在等待,等著答案出現,做我們能夠做的事情。
餐飲行業就像是一輛汽車,總是需要新的引擎、減震器、剎車片和消音器。我們永遠也修不好它,因為它總是在行駛過程中。現在,它停了下來,所以我們可以拿出時間來把它修好。
您剛剛談到新冠疫情暴露了餐飲行業的一些缺點。缺點有哪些?能否解決這些問題?
我認為小企業不應該承擔醫療保健的成本,這一點變得日益明顯。醫療應該是面向所有人提供的資源。而且事實證明,我們需要全民基本收入。
在疫情爆發之前,全民基本收入很難實現。即使你是一位久經考驗的經營者,你也很難獲得貸款,因為在金融行業,任何人都知道餐廳的財務基礎并不穩定。疫情暴露了餐廳的成本結構,而我們需要評估食物的價格。我認為實際成本將全面上漲30%或40%。我不知道人們會如何支付增加的成本。
當然如果你有擴大經營規模的資本和現金流,并且有途徑進入公開市場,你就沒有提高價格的動機。由于這種變化,你會看到整個行業會迎來巨變。
這會給整個國家帶來問題,因為餐廳就像是銀行。只是我們不會把錢抓在手里,靠它來收取利息。我們引入資金后,會很快把它們花掉,比如支付給花店、烘焙師、食材供應商、農場主、員工等。在美國的文化中,我們就像是“潤滑油”。我們通過回饋社會,讓整個社會始終保持正常運行。
到2035年,福桃會變成一家怎樣的公司?
我們從未想到會發生新冠疫情,但我們總是在為可能發生的糟糕的事情做準備。我們會研究大趨勢,所以早在送餐服務流行之前我們就已經開始提供這項服務。我們知道我們必須開展多種經營,為困難時期做好準備,于是我們竭盡全力。我們最初是一家設備公司。我們進軍傳媒業。我們有一間實驗室,主要制作各種發酵制品,如辣椒醬、鹽、醬油到各種味噌等。我們之前曾經與卡夫亨氏(Kraft Heinz)合作開發產品,并推廣我們的Ssam Sauce調味醬。
兩年前,我們提出了一個遠大的目標,計劃在五年內改變公司的收入結構,保證50%的收入來自消費品而不是餐廳。現在,在疫情的影響下,我們把實現這個目標的時間縮短到了6個月。我們為此調動了所有資源,同時繼續努力為餐廳的未來發展創造機會。
您的公司包含了餐廳和包裝消費品這兩部分業務,作為一位大廚,您對此有何感受?
我想許多廚師會說:“這不是我該做的。”我沒有那樣的福氣。我必須做出最合適的選擇。
我們進行了大規模重組。我們會努力避免再關閉任何餐廳。但我們的目標可能是后退幾步,夯實基礎,著眼于未來打造一家更出色的公司,召回所有老員工,去做更多事情。現實情況是,我們必須竭盡全力生存下去。如果我們不做出改變,未來將沒有任何希望可言。
您的書有一部分是在描寫失敗的經歷。我很好奇餐飲行業到底有哪些因素吸引了像您這樣一位好勝的人。在當前這個關乎生死存亡的時刻,您是否需要這種心態?
現在,烹飪在人們眼中是一項很酷的職業。但不久之前,如果你跟別人說你想成為一名廚師,人們會說:“你到底在干什么?”我去烹飪學校的時候,人們對我說:“恭喜你,從現在開始,人們會問你在監獄里待過嗎?你是退役軍人嗎?或者你剛離開康復中心嗎?”現在,有常春藤名校畢業的年輕人也加入了烹飪行業。這是最讓人覺得不可思議的事情。
我今年已經43歲半。至少按照保守派的觀念,一個人之所以做廚師是因為他做不了其他事情。至少就我了解,許多人從事烹飪的理由,并不適合當前的現狀。我認為,正是因為始終無法融入主流才讓我斗志昂揚。
餐廳為我提供了我所需要的這種奇怪的結構。我從小到大總是被別人吼,從我的父親、我的家人到高中時代。顯然,在廚房里也是如此。我根本無法融入到任何其他場合。廚房給我的感覺是,哇,這種環境讓我感到非常熟悉。至少對我而言,我之所以熱愛烹飪,是因為它讓我無法自拔。我沉迷于廚房帶給我的快感,許多人都有這樣的感受。
您在書中描寫了自己成為領導者的過程。在一次董事會議上,您曾經被人形容是他們見過的最差勁的商人,而且您的高管教練曾經表示,許多人根本無法忍受您,但他們這么長時間以來竟然一直支持您,這讓人覺得難以置信。
商人或者投資人對廚師說的最糟糕的話是,你是一位藝術家。這句話有一部分是正確的。我們確實是藝術家。但這句話中存有一種奇怪的偏見,人們認為廚師不會做其他任何事情。我認為這是一個自我塑造的過程。
我在做商業決策的時候,以及作為一名公司領導人,都犯過許多錯誤。這對我來說并不容易。我一直在反思自身存在的許多問題。我無法合理地解釋為什么我總是發火,或者為什么總是脾氣很差。
這也是我放棄很多福桃的控制權的一個原因。我不再參與決策。我的大部分工作是弄清楚哪些情況會讓我爆發。如果你自己有成癮的問題,就不應該把別人放到可能讓他們受到誘惑的情景當中。我一直在努力,但并不容易。
您在書中坦誠地談論了自己的抑郁癥和憤怒,以及它們與您的成功的聯系。如果您的職業發展得益于這些問題,您又如何看待自己的創造力?您如何開啟未來職業發展的新篇章?
無論我以前的成功得益于哪些因素,現在我可以回過頭來問自己,它真的有用嗎?我愿意接受新事物嗎?它們最終是否給我帶來了更多快樂?是否給我和我身邊的人帶來了正能量?
或許登頂并不是目標。或許我也可以走到中途,然后再返回山腳。就我而言,所謂成功的標準一直在變化,我也在考慮這對于我的未來意味著什么。這是我的真心話。我真的不知道。(財富中文網)
翻譯:劉進龍
審校:汪皓
Since opening up his revolutionary Momofuku Noodle Bar in New York City 2004, Chang has not only built a restaurant empire but also become a spokesperson for the industry as a whole with Netflix show Ugly Delicious, a podcast, and now his just-released memoir, Eat a Peach. In his new book, written with Gabe Ulla, Chang scrutinizes his own success, bipolar disorder, and depression with the same honesty and bluntness that has made him such a critical figure in food culture.
These days, his message is a dire one: Restaurants are an essential part of the "oil" that keeps society and the economy running smoothly—and they are struggling to survive amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Even Momofuku has had to close two of its locations. The chef is focused on advocating for the industry with elected officials, pushing for government assistance, and trying to create solidarity within the sector. The big question he's trying to answer: "How do we fix this industry so it isn’t so fragile?," he asks. "How do we make sure we don’t repeat these mistakes?"
The following are edited excerpts of Fortune’s conversation with Chang.
Fortune: Let’s start by taking the temperature of the industry right now. In April, you said that it had been the hardest couple of weeks of your life. Have things gotten better or worse?
David Chang: I don't know if things have gotten better. We've just adapted to it. We understand the obstacles ahead of us a little bit better. The only thing that can really change the situation is a vaccine or some kind of effective therapeutic and proper government assistance that it seems every other English-speaking nation has been doing for their small business and restaurant industry. But our American government cannot seem to get its act together.
What’s been your strategy?
The first thing was trying to take a pragmatic approach: What is going to be most useful for us in a distressful situation and preparing for a scenario if and when we were to reopen. We spent I don't know how many thousands of hours, our entire team, on it. You have to overhaul everything you've done. For the most part, we were just waiting—waiting for answers and doing what we could.
The restaurant industry has been a metaphorical car that's always needed a new engine and shocks and breaks and a muffler. We could never fix it because it was always on the move. Now it's stopped, and let's take the time to do this right.
You just touched on how COVID has brought to light some of the industry’s vulnerabilities. What are they? Can they be fixed?
It's becoming increasingly clear that I don't think small businesses should have to pay for healthcare. That should be something that is universally provided. And it's proved that we need some kind of universal basic income.
It was hard to make it work before the pandemic. Even if you were a proven operator, it was hard to get a loan because everyone in the financial industry knew the shaky financial ground that restaurants were built upon. It's exposing the cost structure, and we need to evaluate how much you can charge for food. I think the real cost is probably a 30%, 40% increase across the board. I don't know how anyone will pay for that.
The discrepancy is if you have the capital and the cash flow to have scale and you have access to public markets, you have no incentive to raise the prices. Because of that dynamic, you're going to see just dramatic change in the industry.
This is problematic for the country at large because restaurants are like banks. We just don't hold onto the money and collect interest. We bring it in, and we immediately send it out to a variety of things, from florists to bakers to purveyors to farmers to employees. We're like the oil in this culture. We just constantly lubricate it by giving it away.
What does Momofuku look like as a company in 2035?
We never knew a pandemic like this was going to happen, but we always try to prepare for what might be terrible. We look at the trends, and it's a reason we started a delivery service before it was cool. We've done everything knowing that we had to diversify for bad times. We started an equipment company. We were in media. We have a lab where we have focused on making mostly fermented products ranging from hot sauces to salts to soy sauce and versions of miso. We've dabbled in products before with Kraft Heinz and our Ssam Sauce.
Two years ago, we put out a lofty goal of changing our revenue in five years so 50% would not come from the four walls of a restaurant but from consumer product goods. With the pandemic, now we've tried to accelerate that into six months. We're just shifting all of our resources to that and still trying to create a future of growth for the restaurants.
As a chef, how do you feel about being part restaurant company, part consumer packaged goods company?
I think a lot of chefs are saying, 'Well, I didn't sign up for this.' I don't have that luxury. I’ve got to do what's best.
We took a big reorg. We're going to try not to close any more restaurants. But the goal is maybe this is several steps backwards to shore up that foundation so we can create a better company moving forward, hire everyone back, do more things. The reality is we’ve got to do whatever we can to survive. If we don't change, we don't have any hope for a future.
Your book is in part dedicated to the underdogs. I’m curious what it is about the restaurant industry that attracts this type of scrappy person. Is that the mentality that you need in this moment to survive?
Now cooking is seen as cool, but not too long ago, if you told people you want to be a cook, people were like, 'What the hell are you doing?' When I went to cooking school, people said, 'Congratulations, now you’re going to get asked did you get out of prison? Did you get out of the military? Or rehab?' Now you see Ivy League kids cooking. It’s just the craziest thing.
The mindset with at least the older guard—and I'm in the middle at the age of 43—was that you were in this profession because you couldn't do anything else. Many of the people that seemed to have been drawn to it, at least in my world, for whatever reason couldn't fit into the status quo. I tend to think that scrappiness comes from never fitting in.
Restaurants provide this weird structure that I needed. I have been yelled at basically my entire life, from my father, my family, to high school. And then obviously in kitchens. I just couldn't fit in anywhere else. And I get to kitchens and wow, I'm like, there's something familiar about this environment. At least for me, what I loved about cooking was that it's an addiction. I’m an addict to that kitchen high that so many of us get.
In your book you write about your evolution as a leader. You’ve been told in a board meeting that you are the worst businessperson they’ve ever met, and your executive coach said that it was incredible so many people have stayed by your side for so long when they can’t stand you.
The worst thing a chef can be told by a businessperson or investor is that you're an artist. Part of that is true. We are. But part of that is also this weird bias that if you are a chef, you don't know how to do anything else. I think it’s a self-perpetuating thing.
I've made a lot of mistakes both on making business decisions and being a business leader. And that's hard. I've been working on a lot of my own issues. I can't rationalize as much as I want to why I was a yeller or continue to have a bad temper.
It's one of the reasons why I've given up a lot of control at Momofuku. I don't make decisions. A lot of that is understanding what triggers me. If you have an addiction problem, you shouldn't put someone in a situation where they might be tempted. I'm working on it, and it's not been easy.
You write very openly about your depression and your anger, and how they’re tied in some ways to your success. How do you think about your creativity when it’s these issues that fueled your career? What fuels the next chapter?
Well, whatever was working for me before, I can now look and ask, did it even work? Was I open to new things? Did any of that ultimately lead to more happiness, to a net positive for myself and the people around me in the world at large?
Maybe getting to the top of the mountain isn’t the goal. Maybe it’s going halfway and come back down. This whole idea of success for me is something that is constantly shifting and changing, and I think about what that means for me going forward. This is the truth, I really don't know.