????投資經理是否把你的根本利益放在心上？除了投資公司Peregrine長達數十年的騙局之外，還有些基金經理的投資方式也并不像你所期望的那樣。路透社（Reuters ）周五報道勞工部（the Labor Department）可能正在調查摩根大通（J.P. Morgan）違背信托責任的情況。據稱，該行的穩定價值基金（Stable Value Fund）投資于“公司自身承銷和評級的私人抵押債券”，而此基金是為401(k)退休計劃設計的投資工具，本應是“雇員最保守的投資選擇：流動性好并有保險支持”。本月早些時候，《華爾街日報》（Wall Street Journal）報道共同基金和401(k)投資顧問將Facebook納入價值基金的投資組合，然而“Facebook并不算是價值股票”。作為Facebook上市的主承銷商，摩根史坦利投資管理公司（Morgan Stanley Investment Management）運營的基金“在其投資組合中用最高比例投資于Facebook。”

????我最近有幸和先鋒集團（the Vanguard Group）的創始人杰克?博格爾交流，他也是指數共同基金的開路先鋒。我們談到了投資管理和公司治理的現狀。下面是編輯過的談話記錄。

????我們六年前討論你的書《資本主義靈魂之戰》（The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism）的時候，金融危機還沒有發生，Facebook也沒有上市。也還沒有惠普（HP）、切薩皮克（Chesapeake）能源公司和沃爾瑪（Wal-Mart）的丑聞，這都是最近的例子。你是否認為，我們已經輸了？

????我認為我們還沒有輸掉資本主義靈魂之戰。但目前我們的資本體系表現糟糕。長期投資被短期投機行為擠出市場，就像由租客而不是車主在把握方向。個人投資者無法為自己的利益大聲疾呼。70%的市場由代理（代表他人投資的公司）把持。而代理體制運營不佳。

????我們有可能會輸掉資本主義靈魂之戰，但只要有足夠多的人仍然相信自由市場制度是最佳選擇，相信開放市場的可行性，我們就能扭轉乾坤。資本主義已被濫用，但資本主義仍將回歸。這么好的制度不應該失敗。

????董事會需要做出什么改進？

????董事會需要為股東利益服務，成為管理層的監管者，而不是他們的同盟軍。管理層大權在握：他們控制著數據，可以按照需要來決定發布還是保留。

????眼前就有兩個例子。董事會放任公司的開支，用在不該用的地方。一方面是政治捐款。另一方面是高得離譜的薪酬。某些薪酬顧問雖然號稱獨立人士，但如果他們不給管理層漲工資就待不下去。

????基金行業也存在同樣的問題。我們既不愿意觸怒現有客戶，也不想得罪潛在客戶。

????信托機構需要做出什么改進？

????老實說，基金行業現在正經歷著一場革命。指數基金開始占據上風。在到5月底的五年間，有6,000億美元流入指數基金，而4,000億美元流出到活躍投資的基金。指數基金占到行業資產的28%。

????指數基金擁有者需要改變行為方式，要去鼓勵和推動公司董事考慮股東利益，要讓手中的投票發揮作用。

????公司的行為如何影響我們的經濟實力？公司對長遠利益的關注是否足夠？

????我覺得還不夠。我們需要回歸長期投資。市場充斥著投機分子，他們并不參與代理投票。因為他們只是租客、短期行為者，公司治理對他們毫無意義。

????國會、證券交易委員會（SEC）、最高法院（the Supreme Court）、投資經理和分析師都沒有盡到自己的責任。我們必須把市場交還給擁有者。我們需要一個關心公司治理的體系。

????我了解到你寫了一本新書，書名是《文化沖突：投資和投機》（The Clash of the Cultures: Investment versus Speculation）。書的內容是什么？

????Do investment money managers have your best interests at heart? Beyond Peregrine's long-running fraud, some money managers may not be investing your money in the way you expect. Reuters reported on Friday that the Labor Department may be looking into a possible breach of fiduciary duty by J.P. Morgan (JPM). The company put "private mortgage debt underwritten and rated by the bank itself" in its Stable Value Fund, a vehicle designed for 401(k) plans that is supposed "to be the most conservative choice for employees -- liquid and backed by insurance," the report stated. And earlier this month, the Wall Street Journal reported that mutual funds and 401(k) advisors put Facebook (FB) into portfolios advertised as value funds, although "Facebook isn't considered a value stock." Funds run by Morgan Stanley Investment Management, lead underwriter of Facebook's IPO "put the highest percentage of their portfolios in Facebook."

????I recently spoke with Jack Bogle, founder of the Vanguard Group and the first index mutual fund, about the state of money management and corporate governance today. Here's an edited transcript of our conversation.

????When we talked six years ago about your book, The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism, there was no financial crisis, no Facebook IPO. We hadn't seen the scandals at HP, Chesapeake, and Wal-Mart, to name some recent examples. Would you say that battle has been lost?

????I don't think we've lost the battle for the soul of capitalism. But right now, our capital system is functioning badly. Long-term investment is being crowded out by short-term speculation. Instead of owners, we have renters of capitalism in the driver's seat. And individual investors don't speak up for themselves. Seventy percent of the market is owned by agents [those who invest other people's money]. And the agency system is not working well.

????The battle for the soul of capitalism could be lost, but as long as there are enough of us left that believe the free market system is best, that open markets can work, we can turn this around. Capitalism has been abused. But capitalism is going to come back. It's too good not to.

????What do boards need to be doing that they still aren't?

????Boards need to be overseers of management and act in the interest of shareholders rather than as partners of management. Management has all the weapons. They have the data. They can give out what they want to and not share the data they don't want to.

????Two examples now. Today, boards are allowing companies to spend dollars in ways they shouldn't. One is on political contributions. The other is the absurdly outrageous salaries we see today. Some compensation consultants may be called independent but you aren't going to be a success if you don't give management a raise.

????In the fund system, we have the same problem. We don't want to offend actual clients and we don't want to offend potential clients.

????What do fiduciaries [these agents who invest others' money] need to do that they aren't?

????Honestly, we are having a revolution going on in the fund industry. Index funds are dominating. In the five years through May, there has been a $600 billion inflow into index funds and $400 billion lost to funds that are actively invested. Index funds make up 28% of industry assets.We must have index owners act in a way they aren't right now, to encourage and push corporate directors to consider shareholder interests, and to use their votes to do that.

????How do you see corporate actions affecting our economic strength? Are companies focused enough on the long-term?

????No, I don't think they are. We need to turn back to long-term investing. The market is made up of speculators that don't vote proxies. Governance means nothing if you are a renter, a short-termer.

????Congress, the SEC, the Supreme Court, money managers, and analysts have all let us down. We have to put the markets back in the hands of owners. We have to have a system that cares about governance.

????I understand you have written a new book called The Clash of the Cultures: Investment versus Speculation. What's it about?