3.彼得?薩洛維和朱迪斯?羅丹

1981年，彼得?薩洛維進入耶魯大學（Yale）就讀心理學研究生。他立即被朱迪斯?羅丹的工作所吸引。他說：“她是利用基礎實驗室工作來解答現實世界問題的人之一，在當時也許是唯一的一個。”羅丹和薩洛維作為師生開始合作，從此以后成為要好的朋友。今天，55歲的薩洛維是耶魯大學校長和心理學教授。69歲的羅丹是洛克菲勒基金會（the Rockefeller Foundation）的總裁，以前還擔任過賓夕法尼亞大學（the University of Pennsylvania）的校長。不久前，他倆聊到了他們最早的一些合作，以及他們一直相互學習的經歷。——Ryan Bradley

薩洛維：我記得早年的一次會議，我要在會上宣傳我的想法。朱迪在幫我鑒別哪些是好想法，哪些是壞的。結果，我把咖啡灑到了她的桌子上。

羅丹：是灑在我身上了！不光是我的桌子……

薩洛維：有個很早的研究表明，出點錯會讓人更招人喜歡。但事實是，只有人們認為你是個強人時才能產生這種效應。

羅丹：好吧，彼得一開始就完全是對的。我想培養我的學生去思考什么東西重要——人們非常容易在象牙塔里迷失方向。最終，我們受到的培養是思考人的認知和行為方式以及為什么它對于人類的行為與進步很重要，對心理學家的培養尤其是如此。

薩絡維：朱迪的興趣從不僅限于做下一項試驗——僅僅閱讀幾篇研究論文，然后順著思路做下一項實驗。相反，她的下一步是選出幾個對現實世界有重大影響的問題，在學術上逆潮流而動。

羅丹：這是我一直在做的事情，無論是在學術上還是商業上——有意思的好想法有很多，但極其重要的只有少數幾個。不能滿意于僅僅擁有好的想法。

薩絡維：我記得有一次，我們請來一位演講嘉賓。事后，我們去吃晚餐。他介紹了一個實驗，還有他注意到的某些現象。我記得朱迪問他：“這里面有什么重要思想嗎？”顯然，那個人很聰明，但從來沒人問過他這個問題。

羅丹：人必須愿意冒險。當一個優秀的領導人同樣如此。“別把事搞砸了”是個糟糕的建議。它是什么意思？勸人不要勇敢嗎？?????

3.Peter Salovey & Judith Rodin

In 1981, Peter Salovey entered Yale as a grad student in psychology. He immediately gravitated toward Judith Rodin's work. "She was one of the people -- maybe the only person at the time -- who took basic lab work and used it to answer real-world questions," he says. Rodin and Salovey began working together, teacher and student, and have since become good friends. Today Salovey, 55, is Yale's president and a professor of psychology. Rodin, 69, is president of the Rockefeller Foundation and was previously president of the University of Pennsylvania. The pair recently spoke about some of their earliest collaborations and their ongoing learning from each other. --Ryan Bradley

Salovey: I remember an early meeting, where I was pitching ideas. Judy was helping me figure out which were good or bad. I spilled coffee all over her desk.

Rodin: On me! Not just my desk ...

Salovey: There's an old study that shows if you blunder, your likability goes up. But the thing is, you only get that effect if the person already thinks you're a competent person

Rodin: Well, Peter was amazing right from the beginning. I try to train my students to consider what matters -- it's so easy to get lost in the ivory tower. In the end, particularly as psychologists, we really are trained to think about what people know and how they act and why that's important in terms of human action and progress.

Salovey: Judy never was interested in just doing the next experiment -- simply reading a few studies and doing the next logical one. Rather, it was to pick problems that are going to have some significant impact on the real world and be a little bit of a scholarly contrarian.

Rodin: This is something I continue to do, whether it's academic or business -- there are a lot of really good, interesting ideas, but only a few really spectacularly important ones. Don't be satisfied with the merely good.

Salovey: I remember once, we had a guest speaker, and afterward we all went out to dinner. He was explaining an experiment and noticing some phenomenon, and I remember Judy saying, "What's the big idea here?" It was clear this person was very smart but had never been asked that question.

Rodin: You need to be willing to take risks. The same holds true to be a great leader. "Don't screw it up" is terrible advice. Well, what does it mean? Don't be brave?????