????大多數人認為亞馬遜才是核心架構領域的領軍者。隨著時間的推移，它添加了更高級的服務，與通用電氣等大公司的合作也越來越多。你怎么看云計算市場上針對大客戶的競爭？谷歌是否也是一個競爭者？

????企業市場從來不是一個“贏者通吃”的市場。如果你看看之前的主從式服務器時代，我們有很多成功的例子，甲骨文、EMC和思科也一樣。在云時代，你可能會說，我們和亞馬遜、谷歌都有超大規模的云業務。但我認為只有亞馬遜和我們，或許還有VMware能在這個新時代繼續保持上一代的領先地位。

????我其實并不關注在IaaS（“基礎設施即服務”）領域與亞馬遜的競爭，那不重要。我們的Azure Active Directory“微軟云”服務已經有了500萬個實體用戶，這意味著有500萬個商業實體在云端上與微軟有聯系，而且他們既沒有用本地服務，也沒有我們的許可證。他們使用微軟Dynamics進行客戶關系管理或企業資源管理，還使用微軟的Office 365、Azure和企業移動套件。而這500萬個商業實體中，還有4.5億個個人。

????在我看來，真正重要的，是擁有正確的SaaS的價值組合。我不認為我們的服務器業務是“過時的”，或是所謂的“遺產”。我認為服務器業務對我們的云業務來說是一種優勢。

????我們現在有能力將云業務和服務器業務捆綁到一塊，這是我們的一個獨特的能力。所以我們究竟在與誰競爭？亞馬遜在這方面是沒有競爭能力的，他們沒有服務器，谷歌也沒有。甲骨文也沒有等同的能力。所以這些都是我們想要領先的領域。

????我并不是說，我們是唯一一家能夠在云服務方面取得成功的公司。就像上一個時代一樣，其他公司也能取得成功。但在技術前景方面，我們是符合歷史潮流的。你提到的幾個名字都很對，有谷歌、亞馬遜，還有我們。但是誰受到了企業界的信任？誰擁有一直專注企業界的韌性？有些公司說自己是做企業業務的，喊了幾天口號，就轉到下一個項目了。

????我想要大規模地構建我們自己的公共云。我們有超過100萬臺機器。我想要采用同樣的軟件——這時我們就要說說SQL（服務器）2016了。目前它已經開始運行了，它的名字叫Azure D8。我們將把它反向集成到一款服務器產品中。我認為這種能力在長期內都會給我們帶來好處。

????我們似乎還沒有提到Windows或Office。微軟是否依然是一家做Windows的公司？

????Windows目前擁有15億用戶。每月都有8.5億臺機器進行Windows升級，這還沒有算上那些因為被企業防火墻隔絕而沒法直接進行Windows升級的機器。所以說我們擁有一個充滿生機的用戶群。另外每年還有3億臺PC被銷售出去。

????所以Windows 10對我來說是一件大事。它是一個新時代的開始，不僅對于PC，對于平板電腦、智能手機、全息電腦、Surface Hub和Raspberry Pi（又稱“樹莓派”，一款小型卡片式電腦）也是一樣。Windows已經遠不止局限于PC。它是一個核心、一個倉庫、一個平臺。

????所以對我來說，Windows也是云服務的一個重要部分。但我認為，Windows的重要性不僅在于一款設備。當我說“移動第一”或“云第一”時，我指的是應用的移動性或體驗，而不是設備的移動性。所以我們的控制平面其實是云技術。

????我在這次訪談中其實談到了好幾次Office 365，但有趣的是，你并沒有把它當成Office。正是由于Office 365，Azure Active Directory才有了那么多商業客戶。它是我們在整個Azure項目的核心，也是Office的核心。而且當你登錄Windows的時候，你其實同時登錄了你的微軟賬戶和Azure Active Directory。所以我才說我們的控制平面是云服務，這些都是整合的方法。

????如果我是一個移動開發者，我可以為蘋果的iOS開發應用，也可以為Android或Windows開發應用。但硬件廠商和微軟之間也有一些摩擦。所以我為什么要選擇為你們而不是為iOS和Android開發呢？

????我認為，只要能接觸到最多的用戶，賺最多的錢，開發者就會去開發應用。我們在Build峰會上說，我們希望開發者開發通用的Windows應用（即在各種設備上都可以用）。這樣做是很有道理的。如果你開發了一款通用應用，你想獲得10英尺的游戲體驗，你就可以在Xbox上玩。如果你想創新地開發一款全息應用，你也可以在HoloLens這樣的全息電腦上運行同一款應用。當然，你也可以選擇在Surface Pro 3這樣的平板電腦上運行。

????這樣你就擁有了“Windows一致性”特點，也就是這些通用應用可以平順地在平板和筆記本電腦之間切換。這對消費者來說是件大事，對于很多行業來說也非常重要。正是因為這些原因，開發者才會看重我們，愿意為我們開發應用。不過我們在Build峰會上也明確表示，開發者也可以使用我們的后端，同時為Android和iOS設備開發應用。他們可以使用我們的企業移動套件，如果他們是IT人員的話，還可以在Android、iOS和Windows等各個平臺使用我們的安全管理、身份識別、設備管理和數據損失保護工具。這也是我們的一個獨特的能力。（財富中文網）

????譯者：樸成奎

????審校：任文科

????Most people see Amazon as the leader in core infrastructure. Over time it added higher level services and talked more to big companies like General Electric. What’s your take on the competitive landscape for big customers when it comes to cloud computing? Is Google a contender?

????The enterprise market is never winner-take-all. If you look at the previous client-server era, we had a lot of success. So did Oracle, EMC, Cisco. And now, when you look at the current cloud era, you would say there is us, there’s Amazon, and there’s Google who have that hyperscale cloud. But really it’s Amazon, us, and maybe VMware who will translate the position that they had in the previous era to one in this new era.

????I really am not focused on competing against Amazon in IaaS [“infrastructure-as-a-service”]. That’s not what it’s about. Take Azure Active Directory. It’s got 5 million entities—that means 5 million commercial organizations that have a relationship with Microsoft in the cloud and not on premise or with our licenses. None of that. They’re using Dynamics for CRM [“customer relationship management”] or ERP [“enterprise resource management”], Office 365, Azure, Enterprise Mobility Suite. That is representing 450 million individual identities within that 5 million organizational footprint.

????To me what matters is having the right mix of SaaS value. I don’t think of my server business as somehow “old school” or “legacy.” I actually think of the server as the edge of my cloud.

????We now have the ability to tie together the cloud and the server. That is a very unique capability that we have. So who am I competing with? Amazon has no capability to compete there. They don’t have a server. Nor does Google. Oracle doesn’t have the equivalent capability. So those are the places where we want to really excel.

????I’m not claiming that we are the only guys who are going to succeed in the cloud. Others can succeed as well, just like in the previous generation. But the people who are on the right side of history, so to speak, when it comes to technology promise? You identified them right. There is Google, Amazon, and us. But who has the credentials with the enterprise? Who has the tenacity to stay constant with it? It’s not a fashionable thing to say you’re in the enterprise business for a few days and then move onto the next project.

????I want to build our own public cloud at scale. We have over a million machines. I want to take the same software and—well, this is how we got to SQL [Server] 2016. It’s already running; it’s called Azure DB. We will now take that and reverse-integrate it into a server product. That’s the kind of capability that I feel will serve us well in the long run.

????I don’t think we’ve actually mentioned Windows or Office once. Is Microsoft still a Windows company?

????Windows is used by a billion and a half users. We see, on a monthly basis, 850 million machines that touch Windows Update. This is not even counting the machines behind corporate firewalls that don’t directly talk to Windows Update. So it’s a vibrant user base. And there are 300 million PCs, by the way, sold every year.

????So Windows 10 is huge to me. It’s the beginning of a new generation of Windows. It’s not just about PCs. It’s about tablets and phones. It’s also about holographic computers and Surface Hub. It’s about [simple, versatile computers like] Raspberry Pi. Windows has gone way beyond the PC. It’s one core, one store, one platform.

????So to me Windows is very much part of the cloud. But one of the fundamental things I believe is, it’s not just about one device. When I say “mobile first” or “cloud first,” to me it’s about the mobility of the app or the experience, not the mobility of the device. And if you believe that, then the control plane is really the cloud.

????I actually talked quite a bit about Office 365 in this conversation. The fact that you didn’t think of it as Office is interesting. Office 365, that’s where Azure Active Directory gets all those organizational tenants from. It’s core to what we’re doing in Azure. It’s core to what we’re doing in Office. And guess what? When you log into Windows, you’re logged into both your Microsoft account and your Azure Active Directory. So the control plane is in the cloud. And those are the ways things come together.

????If I’m a mobile developer, I can develop for Apple iOS, I can develop for Android, or I can develop for Windows. But there’s been strife with hardware makers and Microsoft. Why develop for you and not them?

????I think they will choose to develop wherever they can make the most amount of money by reaching the most amount of users. At Build we said that we want them to write universal Windows apps [that work across devices]. There are many cases to be made for it. When you build a universal app, and you want a 10-foot experience, you can go to the Xbox. You want to innovate and build a holographic app, you can use the same application on a holographic computer like HoloLens. You can, of course, run it on our tablets like the Surface Pro 3.

????So you now have these “Windows Continuum” features where those universal applications can gracefully move between a tablet and a laptop. It’s relevant for consumers, but it’s also going to be relevant in many industrial scenarios. Those are the kinds of reasons why developers will want to look at us and build for us. But we made it clear at Build that developers can use our back end and still target Android or iOS devices. They can have our Enterprise Mobility Suite and, if they’re an IT person, manage security, identity, device management, and data-loss protection across Android, iOS, and Windows. That’s a unique capability of ours.