你在這本書里建議“聘用那些討人厭的家伙”和“那些瘋狂的家伙”。這對你有什么反作用嗎？

有些人是因為煩人而遭人討厭，沒有哪家公司需要這樣的人。但很多情況下，非常高傲的人也很討人厭，而公司要能為這種人找到容身之處，并且多多少少要把他們和主流體系隔離開來，這樣他們身上令人討厭的地方就不會帶來危害。有時候 ，出了技術問題，而你身邊最聰明的人恰好是那個惹人討厭的家伙，你會真心希望他是你的團隊成員。

蘋果公司以嚴格和保密著稱。你覺得史蒂夫?喬布斯是不是扭曲了你的一些想法嗎？

我覺得確實如此。實際上，我知道他們扭曲了我的想法。真正的問題在于，秘密可以成為一種工具，但我也覺得他們的秘密太多了。我覺得和谷歌（Google）相比，蘋果過于遮遮掩掩，谷歌對自己正在進行的項目則相當開放。實際上，變得開放以后，你會得到一些意想不到的幫助，而蘋果在這方面一直都沒有得到什么好處。

你覺得其他關于史蒂夫?喬布斯的書和你的記憶吻合嗎？

我覺得只要提到某個人，所有文章中提到他們的事情就都會涌現出來。我想我沒有看到什么大的偏差，很多時候都是細節上或者側重點的問題。我想我和他的私人關系能填補一些空白點，讓人們看到一個完整的喬布斯。

你在書里談到了哪些情況下你會允許員工在上班時間睡覺。這個觀念已經進入了許多不同的公司。你認為這樣的想法會不會影響工作和家庭生活之間的平衡呢？

如今在工作方面的一個問題是私人時間和工作時間界線不明。美國宇航局（NASA）對打盹的好處做了大量研究。它能讓人重新精神煥發，有時候在午飯后小睡20分鐘能讓整個下午的工作效率倍增。

我覺得經營一家好公司的根本就是要公平。不要去打擾別人的自由時間。這么干絕對是錯的，會降低效率，原因是現在我們中的大多數人都是腦力勞動者，最重要的就是工作態度。如果總是在做事情，工作態度就會非常、非常迅速地偏離正確的方向。

從雅達利到其他公司，你覺得自己的管理風格有什么發展變化嗎？

當然有變化。它肯定經歷了發展變化，而且多多少少變得更完善了。但在這期間，我的核心準則一直都相當統一。

這些核心準則是什么？

把員工當成年人對待。注重結果而不是過程。以能力取人，而不是那些必需的文憑。在我用過的最好的工程師中，有些人是自學成才。其中有幾個甚至都連高中都沒有畢業，更不用說大學了。我覺得主要是要聘用那些有創造力、心態快樂的人。如果不快樂，他們就不會非常優秀。一家管理合理的公司能讓人們保持愉悅的心情。我一直都在想辦法把重心放在這方面。“快樂”和人們做多少工作無關。和它有關的因素包括尊重、分工明確以及參與讓自己感到驕傲的項目。

You give some advice in the book to "hire the obnoxious" and "hire the crazy." Has that backfired for you?

People who are obnoxious for obnoxious' sake, no company needs them. But a lot of times, people who are very arrogant are obnoxious, and the company needs to be able to find a place for those people, and somehow isolate them from the mainstream so their obnoxiousness doesn't become pernicious. Sometimes when you've got a technical problem and the smartest guy in the room happens to be obnoxious, you really want him on your team.

Apple is famous for its strict culture and secrecy. Do you think Steve Jobs warped some of your ideas?

Oh I'm sure they did. In fact, I know they did. The real issue is secrecy can be a tool, but at the same time, I think that there's too much secrecy. I think that Apple's too secretive compared to Google (GOOG), which is quite open about the projects it's working on. And what actually happens when you're more open is you get help from strange sources that Apple isn't getting the benefit of.

Do you feel that other books published about Steve Jobs have been pretty accurate from what you remember?

I think that whenever you have a person, they become a composite of all the things that are written about them, and I don't think there are any gross inaccuracies that I've seen. I think a lot times it's a matter of nuance, of emphasis. I thought that my personal relationship with him would fill in some of the pieces to get a complete view of the man.

In your book, you talk about how you would allow employees to sleep at work. That idea has spread to many different companies. Do you think that sort of thinking might interfere with work/home life balance?

The problem with today's work is that there's a blurring distinction between my time and the company's time. NASA did a whole bunch of studies on the benefits of a nap. It was tremendously rejuvenating, and in some cases it can double your productivity in the afternoon time if you take a 20-minute nap after lunch.

I think the whole ethos of running a good company is to be fair. Don't chew up people's free time. It's just wrong, and it's counterproductive because now most of us are knowledge workers, and the most important thing is perspective. And if you're working all the time, you lose perspective very, very quickly.

Would you say from your time at Atari and moving forward to your other companies, did your management style evolve?

Oh yeah. It definitely evolved and got somewhat more sophisticated. But my core principles stayed pretty consistent throughout that period of time.

What are those core principles?

Treat employees like adults. Focus on outcomes not process. Hire people for intensity not necessarily credentials. Some of the best engineers I've had were self-trained. A couple of them never completed high school let alone college. I think that the main thing to do is get creative, happy people. If your people aren't happy, then they aren't very good. A properly managed company can keep people happy. I always tried to focus on that. "Happy" has nothing to do with how much or how little people work. It has to do with respect and clear tasking, and being involved in projects that they can be proud of.